Concise Minutes

Attendance

Category	Names
Assembly Members:	Christine Chapman AM (Chair) Peter Black AM Alun Davies AM Jocelyn Davies AM Janet Finch-Saunders AM Mike Hedges AM Mark Isherwood AM Gwyn R Price AM Rhodri Glyn Thomas AM Lesley Griffiths AM
Witnesses:
Committee Staff:	Sarah Beasley (Clerk) Claire Morris (Second Clerk) Sarah Sargent (Deputy Clerk) Matthew Richards (Legal Adviser)

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Transcript

View the meeting transcript (PDF 543KB) View as HTML (746KB)

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1 Introductions, Apologies and Substitutions

1.1 The Chair welcomed Members and members of the public to the meeting

1.2 Apologies for absence were received from Gwenda Thomas AM. John Griffiths AM substituted for Gwenda Thomas AM, in accordance with Standing Order 17.48.

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2 Renting Homes (Wales) Bill - consideration of amendments

2.1 Sandy Mewies was present for part of the item in place of Alun Davies.

2.2 Alun Davies declared the following relevant interest under Standing Order 17.24A:

· He is a private landlord.

2.3 Rhodri Glyn Thomas declared the following relevant interest under Standing Order 17.24A:

· He is a tenant in the private rented sector.

2.4 Peter Black declared the following relevant interest under Standing Order 17.24A:

· He is a Member of the City and County of Swansea.

2.5 Janet Finch-Saunders declared the following relevant interests under Standing Order 17.24A:

· She is a private landlord and a tenant in the private rented sector.

2.6 Lesley Griffiths declared the following relevant interest under Standing Order 17.24A:

· She is a tenant in the private rented sector.

2.7 In accordance with Standing Order 26.21, the Committee disposed of the following amendments to the Bill:

Amendment 1 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 82 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 82 was not agreed.

Amendments 83 to 88 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendments 83 to 88 were not agreed.

Amendment 2 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 44 (Jocelyn Davies) was withdrawn in accordance with Standing Order 26.66(i).

Amendment 45 (Jocelyn Davies) was not moved.

Amendment 60 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 46 (Jocelyn Davies)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman	Janet Finch-Saunders
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies	Mark Isherwood
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
Amendment 46 was not agreed.

Amendment 47 (Jocelyn Davies) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 89 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 89 was not agreed.

Amendment 48 (Jocelyn Davies) was not moved.

Amendments 90 to 98 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendments 90 to 98 were not agreed.

Amendment 61 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendments 99 to 107 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendments 99 to 107 were not agreed.

Amendment 3 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 108 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 108 was not agreed.

Amendment 109 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 109 was not agreed.

Amendment 168 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Janet Finch-Saunders	Peter Black	Jocelyn Davies
Mark Isherwood	Christine Chapman	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
	Alun Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
Amendment 168 was not agreed.

Amendment 62 (Lesley Griffiths)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Christine Chapman	Peter Black
Alun Davies	Jocelyn Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Mike Hedges
John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood
Gwyn Price
Amendment 62 was agreed.

Amendment 169 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Janet Finch-Saunders	Peter Black
Mark Isherwood	Christine Chapman
	Alun Davies
	Jocelyn Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 169 was not agreed.

Amendment 63 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 64 (Lesley Griffiths)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black		Janet Finch-Saunders
Christine Chapman		Mark Isherwood
Alun Davies
Jocelyn Davies
Mike Hedges
John Griffiths
Gwyn Price
Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 64 was agreed.

Amendment 110 (Peter Black) was not moved.

Amendment 170 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Janet Finch-Saunders	Peter Black
Mark Isherwood	Christine Chapman
	Alun Davies
	Jocelyn Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 170 was not agreed.

Amendment 4 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 111 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 111 was not agreed.

Amendment 112 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 112 was not agreed.

Amendment 113 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 113 was not agreed.

Amendment 171 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 171 was not agreed.

Amendment 114 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 114 was not agreed.

Amendment 172 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman	Jocelyn Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Alun Davies	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Mark Isherwood	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
Amendment 172 was not agreed.

Amendment 173 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman	Jocelyn Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Alun Davies	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Mark Isherwood	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
Amendment 173 was not agreed.

Amendment 174 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Jocelyn Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Christine Chapman
Mark Isherwood	Alun Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 174 was not agreed.

Amendment 115 (Peter Black) was withdrawn in accordance with Standing Order 26.66(i).

Amendment 163 (Jocelyn Davies) was not moved.

Amendment 164 (Jocelyn Davies) was not moved.

Amendment 5 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 6 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 7 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 8 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 9 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 10 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 11 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 12 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 13 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 14 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 15 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 16 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 17 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendments 116 to 118 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendments 116 to 118 were not agreed.

Amendment 18 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 175 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Janet Finch-Saunders	Peter Black
Mark Isherwood	Jocelyn Davies
	Christine Chapman
	Alun Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 175 was not agreed.

Amendment 19 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 176 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 176 was not agreed.

Amendment 20 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 177 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 177 was not agreed.

Amendments 119 to 122 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendments 119 to 122 were not agreed.

Amendment 123 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 123 was not agreed.

Amendment 178 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Janet Finch-Saunders	Peter Black
Mark Isherwood	Jocelyn Davies
	Christine Chapman
	Alun Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 178 was not agreed.

Amendments 124 to 126 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendments 124 to 126 were not agreed.

Amendment 127 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 127 was not agreed.

Amendment 179 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 179 was not agreed.

Amendment 180 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 180 was not agreed.

Amendment 181 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 181 was not agreed.

Amendment 182 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 182 was not agreed.

Amendment 183 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Jocelyn Davies	Christine Chapman	Peter Black
Janet Finch-Saunders	Alun Davies
Mark Isherwood	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
Amendment 183 was not agreed.

Amendment 128 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 128 was not agreed.

Amendment 21 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 129 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 129 was not agreed.

Amendment 65 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 22 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 23 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 24 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 130 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 130 was not agreed.

Amendment 131 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 131 was not agreed.

Amendment 66 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 132 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 132 was not agreed.

Amendment 133 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 133 was not agreed.

Amendment 67 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 184 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Janet Finch-Saunders	Alun Davies
Mark Isherwood	Jocelyn Davies
	Mike Hedges
	John Griffiths
	Gwyn Price
	Rhodri Glyn Thomas
Amendment 184 was not agreed.

Amendment 68 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 25 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 69 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 134 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 134 was not agreed.

Amendment 135 (Peter Black)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 135 was not agreed.

Amendment 70 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 26 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 27 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 71 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

Amendment 185 (Mark Isherwood)

In favour	Against	Abstain
Peter Black	Christine Chapman
Jocelyn Davies	Alun Davies
Janet Finch-Saunders	Mike Hedges
Rhodri Glyn Thomas	John Griffiths
Mark Isherwood	Gwyn Price
As the vote was tied, the Chair used her casting vote in the negative (in accordance with SO 6.20 (ii)). Therefore amendment 185 was not agreed.

Amendment 72 (Lesley Griffiths) was agreed in accordance with Standing Order 17.34(i).

2.8 In relation to group 14 (condition of the dwelling) the Minister agreed to write to the Committee, in advance of the meeting on 8 October, to outline in detail the matters to be included in the regulations relating to determining fitness for human habitation. The Minister also agreed to provide information regarding the timescales for the introduction and implementation of these regulations.

2.9 Sections 7 to 29, 31 to 88, 90 to 101, 103 to 119, and 121 to 128 were deemed agreed.

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Concise Minutes - Communities, Equality and Local Government Committee

Attendance

1 Introductions, Apologies and Substitutions

2 Renting Homes (Wales) Bill - consideration of amendments

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